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ExoticHobbyist.com
Jessie Clark-White
Why Exotic Pets Should Not Be Banned
March 2, 2005

PHChristy: On behalf of Jeff Barringer and all of us at exotichobbyist.com, I'm very pleased to welcome Jessi Clark-White to our Seventh Annual Chat Week.

amazinglyricist: ?

PHChristy: Jessi is the owner of the AfricanServal.com and ExoticCatz.com websites. She is also the author of numerous articles on legislative and regulatory issues regarding exotic pet ownership, and is a strong advocate for the responsible ownership of exotic pets.

Maliyum: ?

Taylor: ?

PHChristy: She writes, "The current lobby to outlaw people's exotic pets is fueled by miconceptions and special interests. The truth is that banning exotic animals doesn't help them - it kills them! These bans result in pets being seized from their loving owners and killed or placed in overburdened rescue facilities."

olympiadator_nr: ?

PHChristy: Jessi is joining us tonight to debunk the myth that exotic pet ownership is dangerous, inhumane, or irresponsible, and to discuss "Why Exotic Pets Should NOT Be Banned."

PHChristy: Thank you so much for being here tonight, Jessi, and welcome! Please go ahead with your opening comments.

JessiClarkWhite: Hello, thank you for having me. I'm here tonight because it is very important to me to spread the word about why exotic pets should not be banned. And address some of the concerns that people have about keeping exotic animals.
Because of the widespread public misconceptions about exotic animals and their owners
Extreme animal rights groups have been able to convince legislators to pass legislation prohibiting exotic animal ownership in many areas. Often with severe and unintended results.
I work with African Servals and other small exotic cats. Tonight I’d like to address some of the myths and misconceptions and rebut some of the common arguments against exotic animal ownership. I welcome the opportunity to answer any questions you might have.
If we have time I would also be happy to answer any questions regarding the African Serval.

PHChristy: If at any time during the chat you have a question or comment for Jessi, just type ? or ! and wait to be called on by PHQuills!

ashnzade: ?

olympiadator_nr: ?

PHFaust: ?

Taylor: ?

morliaman: ????

PPHQuills: lyracist, I have you up first. :)

amazinglyricist: What is your opinion on the keeping of large monitors, cocodilians, and snakes. Also what is your opinion of keeping venemous snakes, big cats, and bears? And what do you try to do is you approve of it to promote them being kept appropriately. Also how far do you think State and government will go with bannings of exotic wildlife?

PHChristy: LOL, hmmm.. you should have had MANY question marks for that one, amazing...

amazinglyricist: lol

amazinglyricist: I figured I could start us off on topic

JessiClarkWhite: My opinion is that people should have the legal right

JessiClarkWhite: to responsibly own

JessiClarkWhite: any pet they wish.

JessiClarkWhite: I feel that no person should own any animal

JessiClarkWhite: unless they are capable of providing

JessiClarkWhite: for the animals well being comfort and safety

JessiClarkWhite: as well as the safety of the public

JessiClarkWhite: but I do not that a double standard should exist

JessiClarkWhite: between exotic animals such as the one you mentioned

JessiClarkWhite: and domestic animals

JessiClarkWhite: such as dogs horses, etc.

JessiClarkWhite: which can also be difficult to care and pose a danger to the public in the wrong hands.

JessiClarkWhite: I operate through websites

JessiClarkWhite: non commercial websites for the soul purpose

JessiClarkWhite: of educating current and potential owners

JessiClarkWhite: on the proper and responsible ownership of exotic cats

JessiClarkWhite: It's anybodies guess on how far the government will go in banning or regulating certain types of animals.

JessiClarkWhite: but major animal rights groups have expressed that they wish to make illegal to own pets at all.

JessiClarkWhite: ga

PPHQuills: Maliyum? Your turn. :)

PPHQuills: Oops. Taylor? How about you.

PHChristy: oops. let's move Maliym to next when he or she gets back.

Taylor: jessi would you recamend little children keeping bats?

JessiClarkWhite: I don't know anything about bats so I don't feel I'm qualified to answer that.

JessiClarkWhite: ga

Taylor: ok

PPHQuills: olympiadator, your turn. :)

olympiadator_nr: how long have you been working with exotic animals? also, has it been hard to get people to understand more about the exotic animals, and also, do u have like a "private" zoo to house any exotic animals that you have yourself?

JessiClarkWhite: I've been working with exotics since I got my serval about 3 years ago

olympiadator_nr: ok

JessiClarkWhite: Although I was involved in domestic animal training and welfare projects for many years before that.

olympiadator_nr: kool

JessiClarkWhite: I would say that people are very open to learning about exotic animals

JessiClarkWhite: and welcome any reliable information that is presented to them

PHWyvern: ?

olympiadator_nr: thats what i thought, cuz it is a new thing to learn

JessiClarkWhite: however it can be very difficult to change some peoples negative misconceptions.

JessiClarkWhite: about the keeping of exotic pets.

olympiadator_nr: yah, once they have their opinion it is hard to change it

JessiClarkWhite: I am a USDA educational exhibitor I do educational presentations

olympiadator_nr: ohh, thats kool

olympiadator_nr: at like schools or bigger events?

JessiClarkWhite: to humane societies, legislators and pretty much anybody that is interested

JessiClarkWhite: in learning about exotic cats.

JessiClarkWhite: yes

olympiadator_nr: awesome

olympiadator_nr: ok thanks Jessi

JessiClarkWhite: However I do not operate a zoo and I'm not open to the public. :-)

JessiClarkWhite: you're welcome

JessiClarkWhite: ga

PPHQuills: Maliyum, we saved a spot for you. :) Go ahead.

Maliyum: Why exactly are exotics banned? This may be off-topic Would a ferret be a good pet for me? Ive never had a mouse, rabbit...I heard their really nice animals, are they are to take care of what about rabbits? Right now i currently have a turtle, a lizard and a betta fish

ilikesnakes7792: ?

PHChristy: I must say, exotichobbyist is going to get the award for "most questions in a question" for Chat Week!

JessiClarkWhite: I think exotic pets tend to be banned for two main reasons

Maliyum: lol

JessiClarkWhite: one being concern for the welfare of the animal

JessiClarkWhite: the other being concern for public safety

JessiClarkWhite: however, exotic pets are not particularly dangerous

JessiClarkWhite: in fact one study showed that the risk of injury to exotic cat owners was less

JessiClarkWhite: than the risk of injury due to dog bite

JessiClarkWhite: and every person that drives a car

JessiClarkWhite: subjects themselves and their family

JessiClarkWhite: to a risk 3 times greater than the risk associated with someone that owns even a large exotic cat

JessiClarkWhite: like a tiger

Catfur: ?

JessiClarkWhite: there is no record of an escaped exotic cat ever killing a human being in the USA.

Maliyum: wow

Maliyum: but yet they want to ban them...hmmm

JessiClarkWhite: we let people participate in dangerous activities

JessiClarkWhite: such as rock climbing

JessiClarkWhite: and skydiving

JessiClarkWhite: there's no reason why we should prohibit owning an

JessiClarkWhite: exotic cat if they wish to take on that risk.

JessiClarkWhite: As far as the concern for the welfare of exotic animals goes

Maliyum: Its like the same as when you purchase a dog your taking that risk right?

JessiClarkWhite: most exotic pet owners are kind, intelligent people who adore their animals

JessiClarkWhite: and take excellent care of them.

JessiClarkWhite: exactly, Maliyum

JessiClarkWhite: The ban laws have proven to be ineffective

JessiClarkWhite: in preventing exotic animal abuse

JessiClarkWhite: Abuse and neglect

JessiClarkWhite: are not issues

JessiClarkWhite: unique to exotic animals

JessiClarkWhite: they're issues that affect domestic animals as well

JessiClarkWhite: these issues need to be dealt with directly not ban one small population of animal owners.

JessiClarkWhite: ga

PPHQuills: ashnzade, your turn.

Maliyum: thank you

JessiClarkWhite: you're welcome, Maliyum

ashnzade: As an owner of a totally sweet Bengal, I have followed with great interest the other hybrids that are being "created" such as Savannahs, Chausies, etc. What are your feelings about that and what direction do you foresee these new breeds going. Do you think they will be considered "domestic" and be elgible for cat shows as such?

JessiClarkWhite: I see the hybrids becoming more and more popular

JessiClarkWhite: and I imagine they will eventually gain acceptance at cat shows

JessiClarkWhite: the breeding of hybrids is somewhat controversial

JessiClarkWhite: but I feel that for the most part

JessiClarkWhite: demand for hybrids

JessiClarkWhite: is being driven

JessiClarkWhite: by the people who cannot legally own a full blooded wild cat

PHAbymom: ?

JessiClarkWhite: these people then turn to hybrids as their only legal option.

JessiClarkWhite: ga

ashnzade: thank you -- I agree -- are you involved with hybrid breeding also?

JessiClarkWhite: No, I don't actually breed any animals myself. :-)

ashnzade: or maybe you want to take the 5th on that question :)

ashnzade: thank you again -- ga

PPHQuills: morliaman, go ahead. :)

morliaman: I'm all for no government involvement but their has to be some rule or any idiot with the money with own dangerous animals I have alot of experiance in this area as I was both a pet shop worker and a zoo keeper what rules do u think their should be???

JessiClarkWhite: I like the model regulation proposed by the Feline Conservation Federation

JessiClarkWhite: as they provide reasonable barriers

JessiClarkWhite: preventing irresponsible people owning these animals

PHChristy: I will link to that model legislation when I publish the transcript of this chat

JessiClarkWhite: and keeping them in substandard condition.

JessiClarkWhite: while not being unreasonably restrictive.

JessiClarkWhite: ga

morliaman: also as far as those statistic earlier thats not really clear as far more people own dogs and drive cars than own exotics

PPHQuills: Wyvern? Your turn

PHWyvern: Do you think that people wishing to keep large or potentially dangerous exotics such as bobcats, wolves, monkeys, and large/venomous reptiles be required to register with the state for permits on a yearly basis and put up with audit visits to make sure they are up to standards on housing, etc. as well being required to take educational classes regarding exotics, care, laws, etc.

JessiClarkWhite: First of all I would like to point out that many large and potentially dangerous exotic animals

JessiClarkWhite: are already regulated by state and federal government

JessiClarkWhite: I don't feel that a requirement for educational classes

JessiClarkWhite: would be reasonable

JessiClarkWhite: because it fails to take in account

JessiClarkWhite: the years of experience an individual may have already had

JessiClarkWhite: and because such educational classes are rare and

JessiClarkWhite: difficult to find

JessiClarkWhite: but I would strongly encourage anyone that is interested

JessiClarkWhite: in owning exotic animals

JessiClarkWhite: to attend any educational courses they can find

PHWyvern: I would think perhaps zoos would be a logical place to hold regional classes?

JessiClarkWhite: but I don't they should be mandated by law.

JessiClarkWhite: For what I would consider reasonable

JessiClarkWhite: legislation please refer to the model legislation I refered to earlier.

JessiClarkWhite: ga

PPHQuills: Catfur, your turn

Catfur: Okay...

parakeet: ?

Catfur: Do you happen to know any statistics (worldwide) about how many people have been killed by small exotic cats (less than Cheetah sized). The one possible mention of man killing I have found is village tales saying Prionailurus vivverensis has been know to carry off small children.

JessiClarkWhite: I am not familiar with worldwide statistics

JessiClarkWhite: but I am not aware of a small exotic cat

Crazycodykadunk: ?

JessiClarkWhite: ever having killed a human being in the US

JessiClarkWhite: although we have all seen the reports of attacks by

JessiClarkWhite: wild cougars

JessiClarkWhite: ga

PPHQuills: Abymom, your turn. :)

PHAbymom: Several states have banned hybrids as well as exotics. Where do you see this going, will these states recognize that a bengal is a 100% domestic cat by the fourth generation or will they continue to treat them as hybrids and ban ownership?

JessiClarkWhite: The most recent example I can think of

JessiClarkWhite: is New York state

JessiClarkWhite: which banned all hybrids

JessiClarkWhite: without mention

JessiClarkWhite: of generations or at what point an animal

JessiClarkWhite: ceased to be considered a hybrd

JessiClarkWhite: and would be counted as a domestic cat

JessiClarkWhite: I see legislation banning hybrds

JessiClarkWhite: as a serious threat to owners of bengals

JessiClarkWhite: late generation savannahs

JessiClarkWhite: as there is no way to prove through genetic testing

JessiClarkWhite: how much or how little wild blod

JessiClarkWhite: blood

JessiClarkWhite: a cat has

JessiClarkWhite: I think we all need to fight

JessiClarkWhite: to reverse the trend

JessiClarkWhite: of banning exotic cats, including hybrids

JessiClarkWhite: ga

PPHQuills: you are up, crazycody

PHAbymom: Thank you :)

Crazycodykadunk: I was wondering if you new about the anaconda ban in new jersey that came in to affect in 05. im anaconda keeper and i was a little angry on this becouse i only no a hand full of people who keep condas and there has not bin any problems with them like with burms yet burms still can be kept and sold but u can nolong get condas. what is your feelings on this?

JessiClarkWhite: I find this just as frustrating as you do

JessiClarkWhite: this type of legislation

amazinglyricist: ?

JessiClarkWhite: is very unfair

Crazycodykadunk: i could understand if something had happend

JessiClarkWhite: because it targets small groups

JessiClarkWhite: of animal owners

Crazycodykadunk: but nothing has happend with anacondas

JessiClarkWhite: who lack the strength in numbers

JessiClarkWhite: not to mention the time and the money

JessiClarkWhite: to fight

JessiClarkWhite: I would say even if an accident had occured these incidents

JessiClarkWhite: should be dealt with on a case by case basis

JessiClarkWhite: if the owner had acted recklessly that person can be

JessiClarkWhite: dealt with

JessiClarkWhite: but I do not feel that everybody who owns a certain type of animal should be punished

Crazycodykadunk: also what are ur feelings on permits

JessiClarkWhite: because of the actions of one irresponsible owner

JessiClarkWhite: those of us that own exotics of any type

JessiClarkWhite: need to get coordinated

JessiClarkWhite: and work together

JessiClarkWhite: to fight legislation

Crazycodykadunk: we need permits for every herp but not any for any insects of spiders that are way more deadly then a green tree frog

JessiClarkWhite: I'm not opposed to permits provided the

HHFrog: ?

JessiClarkWhite: requirements are reasonalbe

JessiClarkWhite: however

Simbo: ?

JessiClarkWhite: I find that in many cases the permit process

JessiClarkWhite: ends up being used

JessiClarkWhite: as a way to prevent people from owning exotic animals.

JessiClarkWhite: Very true, Crazycodykadunk.

JessiClarkWhite: ga

PPHQuills: lyracist, your turn. :)

amazinglyricist: What can be done by us to keep exotics from being banned and restricetd? And would it be such a problem if many groups of animals required registration to keep so they can be kept track of, or a free permit? I own some exotic turtles, frogs and lizards, I wouldn't mind it too much if I had to register that I had them, as long as they don't cost a lot.

PHWyvern: ?

JessiClarkWhite: I think two things are key in preventing further banning of exotic animals

JessiClarkWhite: the first is to change

JessiClarkWhite: public opinion

JessiClarkWhite: regarding these animals

JessiClarkWhite: since so many people only know what they see on the news

JessiClarkWhite: and don't realize that the majority of exotic animal owners

JessiClarkWhite: are caring and responsible

JessiClarkWhite: we need to get people to see

JessiClarkWhite: that it's just as exceptable for us

JessiClarkWhite: to own a snake or a tiger

JessiClarkWhite: as it is for them to own a dog or a horse

JessiClarkWhite: and that we are capable of loving these animals

JessiClarkWhite: just as much as they are

JessiClarkWhite: second

JessiClarkWhite: we all need to become more involved in the legislative process

JessiClarkWhite: and get to know our senators and representives before legislation is introduced

JessiClarkWhite: we need to work on

JessiClarkWhite: convincing legislators

JessiClarkWhite: not to support ban bills

JessiClarkWhite: in a way this much like

JessiClarkWhite: attempting to change public opinion

JessiClarkWhite: in that we will have to combat the misconceptions they have been fed

JessiClarkWhite: by the media and animal rights organizations

JessiClarkWhite: I am rather divided on the subject of permits

JessiClarkWhite: I myself

JessiClarkWhite: am required to hold a permit

JessiClarkWhite: to own my serval, Sirocco

JessiClarkWhite: and I don't find it to be an unreasonable burden

JessiClarkWhite: however I think a line needs to be drawn somewhere

JessiClarkWhite: for instance in California

JessiClarkWhite: one must two years experience working at a licensed facility

JessiClarkWhite: in order to legally possess a garden slug

JessiClarkWhite: there needs to be some common sense applied at some point

JessiClarkWhite: and I fear that in the future

JessiClarkWhite: a list of permit holders

JessiClarkWhite: could be used to track down

JessiClarkWhite: owners of exotic animals

JessiClarkWhite: should they be banned.

JessiClarkWhite: I tend to favor

JessiClarkWhite: laws that require that EVERY animal be properly cared for

JessiClarkWhite: such as those that exist prohibiting abuse and neglect of domestic animals

JessiClarkWhite: and I'm rather uncomfortable of us having to have permits for everything.

JessiClarkWhite: ga

PPHQuills: HHFrog, go ahead.

HHFrog: Sorry if this has already been asked, but how do you feel about PETA? I personally, am strongly against it.

JessiClarkWhite: While I support some of PETA's agendas

JessiClarkWhite: such as ending abuse of animals

JessiClarkWhite: and encouraging people not to wear fur

JessiClarkWhite: for the most part I am completely against

JessiClarkWhite: this organization and its goals

JessiClarkWhite: I support any organization whose goals is actually to

JessiClarkWhite: improve the welfare of animals

JessiClarkWhite: however I feel that PETA has strayed far beyond this

JessiClarkWhite: and many of their agendas are harmful to both animals and people

JessiClarkWhite: I have also read that PETA has financially supported

JessiClarkWhite: the animal liberation front

JessiClarkWhite: which is currently under investigation for domestic

JessiClarkWhite: terrorism

JessiClarkWhite: and I don't feel that any extremist group

exoticbabe_nr: hi

JessiClarkWhite: should have the ability to influence

JessiClarkWhite: what animals we are or are not allowed to own and breed.

JessiClarkWhite: ga

PPHQuills: Simbo, your turn.

Simbo: I hope I'm not stepping on too many toes here, but I don't see a problem with needing a permit (or similar licencing) to own a large animal such as a Retic, Burm, or Tiger for that matter. I really doubt that the common person could really give a tiger, for example, the quality of life it requires/deserves. The simple fact of the matter is that certain animals don't make good pets and certain people don't think about the future when purchasing a 2' long Burm (which I see 12 year olds walking around with at every reptile show I go to). Do you think vendors should act more responsibly when having tables at shows?

JessiClarkWhite: As far as somebody needing a permit to own a tiger

JessiClarkWhite: it is actually a myth

Simbo: Sorry that came out more as a rant

JessiClarkWhite: that one can simply walk out and buy one of these animals

JessiClarkWhite: tigers are an endangered species

JessiClarkWhite: and as such are heavily regulated by the United States government

JessiClarkWhite: permits are required to possess these animals and transport

JessiClarkWhite: them across state lines

JessiClarkWhite: as is the case with cougars, leopards, cheetahs, and most other big cats

JessiClarkWhite: many people make it seem like there is no regulation

JessiClarkWhite: over these animals

JessiClarkWhite: but in fact

JessiClarkWhite: exotic cat ownership is already regulated by

JessiClarkWhite: department of agriculture

JessiClarkWhite: US department of the interior

JessiClarkWhite: US fish and wildlife service

JessiClarkWhite: CITES

Simbo: What about Burms, Retics, etc?

JessiClarkWhite: The animal welfare act

Simbo: Crocs/Aligators for that matter?

JessiClarkWhite: I'm not familiar with the laws regarding snakes

JessiClarkWhite: The endangers species act

JessiClarkWhite: and the Lacey act

JessiClarkWhite: As far as your question about reptiles at shows

Simbo: Well, if I wanted a retic that might get 18' long, all I have to do is go to a reptile show or on the web.

JessiClarkWhite: I think anybody who breeds or sells animals

JessiClarkWhite: has the responsibility

JessiClarkWhite: to educate potential buyers

JessiClarkWhite: on the proper care and housing

JessiClarkWhite: of the animals they are selling

Simbo: Don't get me wrong, I keep boas, but they are not as big as some of the larger pythons....

JessiClarkWhite: and do their best to screen buyers

JessiClarkWhite: making every effort to place each in a responsible and capable home.

Simbo: just presenting something I think people should think about before buying such a large, demanding animal.

JessiClarkWhite: I agree that everybody should do their research before getting their animals whether it is a goldfish

Simbo: I agree 100%

JessiClarkWhite: or a rhinoceros.

Simbo: Thank you.

JessiClarkWhite: If you feel that people are not recieving the education that they need

JessiClarkWhite: perhaps you could help out

JessiClarkWhite: by starting a website or writing a book

JessiClarkWhite: presenting the information that you feel people are overlooking.

Simbo: I wish I had more time & the resources.....

JessiClarkWhite: ga

PPHQuills: Everyone, that's all we have time for tonight. Jessi, on behalf of all of us at exotichobbyist.com, thank you so much for being our guest tonight!